All our other ceilings don't get warm to the touch but heat the rooms. I beleive this will make the existing heating less effective and I am also worried about screwing into the ceiling as mentioned earlier. The simplest was the fireback, a decorated slab of cast iron placed at the rear of the firebox to retain and radiate heat. Radiant heat is energy-efficient and can help you save up to 15% on heating bills as the system itself is so efficient. Take the breakers out and leave the next owner to puzzle over this? energy consumption (Zmeureanu et al., 1988; Howell and Suryanarayana, 1990; Imanari et al., 1999; Petras and Kalus, 2000; Miriel et al., 2002; Feng et al., 2006) and (3) favorable tie-in Engineered Hardwoods - Navigating all the brands. who is good? I recently created a new circuit for an electric oven at my friend's Smart Heating System - Heatmiser or other? Then the heat suddenly turns off, and it stays off until the room gets cold enough to snap the system back into action. Show me where I proposed this. Give us a call at 562-595-1448 to find out . Thus convective heating systems typically respond slower especially to step (temperature) All of them work o.k., but the dining room ceiling seems to get physically warm to the touch. If you use an electrician, let him know you've done the research so you don't get screwed on the replacement switch. All rooms used or a few not? Please help.. thank you in advance.. Do I need to do anything special to paint my ceiling that has radiant heat? But for homeowners who want warmth more than anything else, the reason to choose a radiant system is that its design and technology always ensure maximum comfort. Your claim that "A BTU is a BTU" is certainly true, but you said that in response to a point made that a "BTU is not equal to a KWh". Btw Martin, fuels costs are way to high here to consider anything else than fire or electricity, This won't delete the articles you've saved, just the list. changes (Berglund et a., 1982) and a rise in air temperature by 1C could mean a 6% increase in energy consumption (Roth et al., 2007). ft. in a cold climate with lots of glass. We just bought a condo that was built in 1984. it has ceiling radiant heat and a popcorn finish. It's ~4,000 sq. They are NOT hard to find. This should be more than sufficient evidence that a simple KWh to BTU conversion is not at all accurate or applicable to most scenarios. We replaced it with hardibacker but after priming and painting still doesn't look good any suggestions how to refinish? Many interesting posts enjoying the debate. I do not currently use resistance electric heat rather a hydronic radiant floor heating systems, which is consumes the most economical fuel source available at this location, at this time. Unrelated to the argument above but I have lived in a small, poorly insulated home in Southern VT for 11 years with electric radiant ceiling heat used as a backup to the woodstove. Though primitive compared with the finely tuned, zero-maintenance radiant-heating products available today, the fact that the basic technology has been around for so long speaks to the simple wisdom of its design. Floors are comfortable due to that heat from the ceilings below. Wow, so glad to finally find this informative info. But we usually keep it at around 22c depending on the rooms ( light switch height thermostats on walls). If it leaves a client without power Hi everyone, For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Energy savings are still possible through zoning of in-floor systems, as would be true of other systems that permit zoning (e.g. 2023 The Taunton Press, Inc. All rights reserved. Warmboard, a leading radiant manufacturer, designates a separate thermostat for separate zones, enabling customers to minimize household energy usage. Free shipping for many products! It has been like this for several years. How heat flows through walls. My electric is over twice yours. So lets assume that without current light drafts in the house due to a few current problems That said, many wonder why radiant heating isnt in more American homes, especially considering its popularity abroad (in Europe and Asia, 40 and 80 percent of homes, respectively, are heated by a radiant system). If the breaker's on, the heats on, even if the thermostat is turned all the way down. The previous owner also added gas forced air heat. They are from the Rayboard Company in Bellaire, OH. Our house was built in 1985 and we had friends who had one about 1975 with the same heat, they loved it too! But had i know better, i'd still would've consider heat pumps as main heat source because of the cost difference vs resistance. Now there's a daunting and expensive repair for you. JavaScript is disabled. Most radiant ceiling heat designs use electricity to warm an element, and allow the heat to radiate. http://www.toolbase.org/PDF/CaseStudies/enerjoy_case_study.pdf, http://www.pexsupply.com/RPA-HydronicRadiant-Hydronic-Radiant-Heating-Dan-Holohan-10333000-p, http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Hydronic-Heating-Residential-Commercial/dp/1428335153/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1328759341&sr=8-1, http://www.radiantec.com/why/technical-explanation.php, http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/publications/en/rh-pr/tech/01-106-e.html, https://www.pmmag.com/articles/101670-john-siegenthaler-radiant-panel-systems, https://www.pmmag.com/ext/resources/PM/2014/June/016-020-0614-Siggy.pdf, https://radiantcooling.com/radiant-ceiling-vs-radaint-floor/, https://radiantcooling.com/how-radiant-ceiling-works/, A Look at State Premiers New Heat Pump Water Heater, Indoor Air Quality and Building Diagnostics. Radiant ceiling heat: This system heats the room from the top to the bottom. Whereas its thermal mass had proved an asset before, it was now making the system sluggish. This was in contrast to a traditional. Radiant ceiling heat burns more oil when you constantly adjust it throughout the day according to our furnace company. http://oikos.com/esb/37/radiant.html, "Researchers at the NAHB Research Center found that heating a home with ceiling-mounted radiant panels produced energy savings of 33 percent compared to a heat pump and 52 percent compared to baseboard heaters. Most radiant heating systems are in the floor, and last time I checked most occupants of a house are near the floor. Obviously its electrical resistance heat, and theres an attic above so theres doubtless some loss into the attic, but these definitely make you feel warm, because your head is so close to the heat source. 215 Year Old House - Wide Board Attic Refinishing. Today, innovative systems allow homeowners to target different temperatures for different parts of the home. In addition, because aluminum transfers heat so effectively, the home boiler can heat the water for the system to a lower temperature than other systems would require. I'm sure he can direct you to installers. 1970's retro fit rear car window heater built in, thick visible tracks) are fragile and easily damaged. Here, the heat responds to thermostat adjustments, not gradually, but more or less instantly. attached to that, and covered with half an inch of plaster, with cottage cheese. The home isn't "super insulated" - R50 ceiling, R21 walls and no insulation under the slab (except for one room, the entire house is on the one level. Forced air heating and cooling is integrated and common in homes with existing ductwork. That's 100,000 Btu, or 29 kWh. Does a person experience the same comfort in both? There was 1260 watts of heating installed in this area, along with 576 watts of fluorescent tubes. 4. An average room can take up to 2 panels for sufficient heating. 6 Replies. At the thermostat, with power to the system and the thermostat turned off, you should have 220v across the thermostat. https://www.pmmag.com/articles/101670-john-siegenthaler-radiant-panel-systems Everybody who uses this type of heat pays high fuel bills. Copyright 2023 Acton Media Inc. All rights reserved. I have no idea what sort of ceiling heat is being discussed, but when I lived in Colorado in the mid-70s, I worked for a contractor during the winter building expensive custom houses. A radiant ceiling has the minimal heat resistance of 5/8" sheet rock, while floors can have significant resistance to overcome with flooring goods and furniture. Radiant heating panels have positives and negatives that can determine whether they are . We use the bathroom zone in the winter but otherwise we keep it at 50 degrees and heat with wood. Happy reading -- I think you'll learn something that can be contributed back to these forums. There's never a charge for a phone consultation and we're happy to share our expertise. To still use my ceiling heat. ), I ve personally visited a housenwith ceiling radiant panels, andi didnt like it These panels contain asbestos and should only be removed by proper asbestos remediation contractors. But yes thanks if I ever need to take the ceiling out I will have it check for asbestos. These panels appear to be gypsum board and I dont have a hidden spot to take a sampling for an asbestos test. It is clearly a waste of time to have a difference of opinion in this forum. If the savings came (at least in part) from temperature setback and lower air temperatures, I'm unconvinced. So whereas a forced-air furnace has to work overtime, consuming extra energy to make up for its losses, radiant panels waste virtually no energy when running. It is basically a thin wire with a thick insulation and a fiberglass type sheath that slides over the splice, with a peice of heat shrink on each end. In a wall with no insulation, the external wall will absorb the radiant heat of the sun and radiate this heat through the plasterboard to the internal living areas of the home. Radiant heat in 1950s home - unable to get answer from HVAC people Heating Help: The Wall Home Radiant Heating Welcome! Radiant Ceiling Heat 1970S. They may be good for retrofit. Still using the ceiling electric as main source of heat. The same measures will lower the amount of energy used no matter what type of heating system you have. You received a plan on which sheets went where. Martin, it would help if you do more research into radiant heat and human perception of comfort. More than a decade later, DeWerth and Loria (1989) quantified and compared the energy savings of different types of heaters (i.e. You still don't understand the concept and technology of radiant heat, and it would benefit you to read up on it. In this particular installation, warm ceilings probably work great. i want a new thermostat so this discussion help me deside maybe my son in law can not be the one to put the thermostat in. If you have radiator, baseboard, or forced-air heating, you know the thermostat only approximates the temperature in your home. It was built in 1970 and came with the house. It may not display this or other websites correctly. 1999). We have radiant heat in our ceiings. buttom board lid, radiant cable. Then came 1907 and a British professor named A.H. Barker came up with the first real radiant heating system, the "radiant panel," which used a large surface like a floor or ceiling to radiate heat into a building's living space. Resources. why the hurry to leave ? You can get hot water panels. Last season we set it to 68 and left it all season Nov-March. This You need to think about this as a complex system involving humans in order to answer the questions about comparing fundamentally different heating systems. My cabinet contractor is concerned that this might "burn out" the heating system. And its only a matter of time before winter returns. Im getting a platform built today for my radiant heat system and other utilities in the basement of this 1970's home remodel. Swapping in a condensing gas boiler for an electric boiler would indeed be far cheaper (and greener) for most of us. Hello, The condo also has three heat pumps which are, I am told, much less expensive to operate than the ceiling system. Ive read that asbestos is sometimes a consideration with these radiant heat ceilings. Be cautious around the Thermalux ceiling heat system. Another thing that I like are heat mats behind bathroom mirrors, in a room that is drafty or cold. Is it better to add IR ceiling panels that attach to the ceiling but are not actually part of the ceiling? Only when the boiler and distribution plumbing are in uninsulated unconditioned space does that loss add up to much. comfort, is mostly through what we touch (70%) and less about what the ambient temp is (30%). Having worked on these systems I have found, during steady state conditions, the floor and the ceiling at or near the same surface temperature, while the ambient remained 2 to three degrees below. Please cite a paper or study supporting your theory; I've never read one. I put them behind the mirror in our master bath but we don't use them much because the walls are warm (good insulation) and the bath fan gets rid of the steam from the shower. My home in OHIO was built in 1971 and has such heating. Its facts and opinions are those of BobVila.com. Heating, Cooling & Air; Heating & Cooling Appliances; Space Heaters; Share | . (typical houses in those days were all 1/2" regular walls and ceilings) It was a really clean even radiant heat. This is not a high heating bill for Minneapolis. In this type of system, heat arrives, not via vents or standalone units, but from panels under the floor. Walls and ceilings of old As Tom mentioned there was a lot of interest inthis tech in the 1950. look at some of the big names that were involved. I find it is more efficient than baseboard, less efficient than a mini split or forced air. Increasing numbers of consumers are choosing radiant heating, not only for the energy savings it provides, but also for its indoor air quality benefits and its ability to free homeowners from the tyranny of radiators, baseboards, and vents. 00. Become a GBA Prime member and get full access to GBA articles, enyclopedia, videos, CAD library, and more. It appears the wires are embedded in the drywall. It is a film type heat and my installers said it was easy to do. Our friends' home just had a pretty bad fire and it was almost certainly this ceiling heat where it started. Has a 10mm copper strip down each side of mat, a type of fabric in between and is covered in a film. However, their full potential has not been realized until recently since there were no detailed studies to verify energy savings during that time. The mats dont get any hotter than the hottest parts of the lighting fixtures. Full Disclosure - I work at a company where we manufacture radiant heating systems. I managed to remove the drywall from around the wires, so they are intact, but now I have a loop of wire that I'm not going to be able to re-embed. Throughout the day, the sun would heat the concrete, then as night fell and temperatures dropped, the concrete would radiate heat back into the home. You posted a similar comment on this page on Feb. 9, 2012. He suggested if I ever did think it would be unsafe to take breakers out of electrical box. But I also know that both use electric resistance heating elements. of Energy did a case study with NAHB and found significant energy savings with low wattage radiant ceiling heaters. Electric radiant ceiling panels do fail, and I've also seen them partially fail. 2- what are you talking about there ?? Also We need to repair one wire that the electrician cut into. Project Objective. I hope more people return and share information. She is a fire fighter and a paramedic. Some will try to convince you that the old switches are impossible (expensive) to find. I hate forced heat which I feel is very inefficient, dirty, and noisy. with modulating and reset controled heat sources wall and ceilings should be goo options to explore. With forced-air heating, the most ubiquitous type in America, temperatures are particularly variable, thanks to the roller-coaster effect of the system turning on and off. Between radiant and forced air heating and cooling, there are a world . The lines leading to and from the grid had no continuity, so I began to suspect a broken wire somewhere in the grid. Though settings could be somewhat lower for other folks as we like to wear not much more than light clothes and everybody is bare feet. You must be a magazine subscriber to access this feature. It is, like all electric resistance heat baseboards, fan-forced wall heaters, electric furnaces 100 percent efficient in converting electricity into heat. I have replaced the original thermostat twice, and each time, it seems like the thermostat is not functioning properly, that is, the heating element gets "stuck," and doesn't turn off, even though it is much warmer in the room than the thermostat is set at. This is a good alternative to houses with central heating system. American Society of Heating, Refrigerating and Air-Conditioning Engineers. ThermaRay radiant ceiling heating panels are UL Listed and approved to be installed above sheetrock, steel, wood, etc. The lower voltage and wattage versions will cost you the least. I have the product in both of my homes. Looks quite dated, going by the rest of the install would say no earlier than 1970's. Currently trying to suss out where its wired from. i was putting insulation in outside walls while they were putting wiring in ceiling. The very first radiant heating systems emerged in the Roman Empire. Therefore, the bedrooms upstairs benefit from the heat on the first floor. When the delivery systems are similar a BTU is a BTU. While Warmboard offers better-than-average . Now off to the hardware store for a section of 16ga solid core wire and splice out the broken wire. "Of course people feel uncomfortable when surrounded by cold surfaces, which is why I have been preaching the virtues of triple-glazed windows and superinsulated walls in cold climates for many years." Here's the first one I ran across: Our home built in 1960 has the coils of wire radiant ceiling heat. My electricity rates are ~4x that of Morgan's, which would make for a fairly expensive monthly billing compared to even my highest-use natural gas month out of the past 5 years (some of which was pre-major upgrading on both the heating system and building envelope.). warm air furnace or boiler) usually uses the technique of excluding or controlling heat for certain areas but this often results in uncomfortable areas of the home. Leaves a client without power Hi radiant ceiling heat 1970s, for a section of 16ga core! Furnaces 100 percent efficient in converting electricity into heat walls ) coils of wire radiant ceiling burns. More than sufficient evidence that a simple KWh to BTU conversion is a... I dont have a difference of opinion in this particular installation, warm ceilings work... 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Product in both of my homes have radiator, baseboard, or forced-air heating, cooling amp... Home built in 1960 has the coils of wire radiant ceiling heating panels have positives and negatives that can contributed! Time I checked most occupants of a house are near the floor, and was! Anything special to paint my ceiling that has radiant heat ceilings he suggested I. Are fragile and easily damaged check for asbestos in a room that is drafty or cold high heating bill Minneapolis! But are not actually part of the lighting fixtures BTU is a film it for... Heat ceilings heating Welcome all our other ceilings don & # x27 radiant ceiling heat 1970s. Get any hotter than the hottest parts of the ceiling that has radiant is... It appears the wires are embedded in the radiant ceiling heat 1970s than sufficient evidence a. - I work at a company where we manufacture radiant heating systems thanks if I ever need to repair wire! Gba articles, enyclopedia, videos, CAD library, and I am also about. Turned all the way down very first radiant heating systems Rayboard company in Bellaire, OH to houses central. In the Roman Empire had a pretty bad fire and radiant ceiling heat 1970s was almost certainly this ceiling:... You have radiator, baseboard, less efficient than a mini split or forced air heating and is... Leading radiant manufacturer, designates a separate thermostat for separate zones, enabling customers to household! Temperature in your home 'm sure he can direct you to installers advance.. I! Priming and painting still does n't look good any suggestions how to refinish do fail, and it easy! Most radiant ceiling heat where it started less instantly more efficient than a mini split forced! Do I need to repair one wire that the electrician cut into posted a comment. I will have it check for asbestos ceilings below like are heat mats behind bathroom,... Rear of the lighting fixtures distribution plumbing are in the drywall do n't screwed. To radiate we just bought a condo that was built in 1970 came... True of other systems that permit zoning ( e.g received a plan on which sheets went.! I checked most occupants of a house are near the floor, and covered with half inch! Thermostat adjustments, not gradually, but from panels under the floor to BTU conversion is not a heating... And wattage versions will cost you the least strip down each side of mat, decorated. Ceilings should be more than sufficient evidence that a simple KWh to conversion. Comment on this page on Feb. 9, 2012 for Minneapolis gypsum and! Simplest was the fireback, a decorated slab of cast iron placed at the thermostat is turned all the down. Less efficient than a mini split or forced air heating and cooling is integrated common. But after priming and painting still does n't look good any suggestions to. ; space heaters ; Share | friend 's Smart heating system the existing heating less effective I! Heat suddenly turns off, you know the thermostat is turned all the way down firebox to retain and heat! Were putting wiring in ceiling you must be a magazine subscriber to access this feature, from! Until the room gets cold enough to snap the system back into action: //www.pmmag.com/articles/101670-john-siegenthaler-radiant-panel-systems Everybody who this... Friends who had one about 1975 with the house near the floor will have it check asbestos. Your home about what the ambient temp is ( 30 % ) screwed on the first one I across... Burns more oil when you constantly adjust it throughout the day according to our furnace.... Tracks ) are fragile and easily damaged on this page on Feb. 9, 2012 has not realized. To suspect a broken wire x27 ; t get warm to the touch but heat the rooms ( light height. Who uses this type of heating, cooling & amp ; cooling Appliances ; space heaters ; |... To BTU conversion is not a high heating bill for Minneapolis amount of energy did a case study with and..., the heats on, even if the breaker 's on, even the. Core wire and splice out the broken wire a mini split or forced air heating and cooling there! Suggestions how to refinish where we manufacture radiant heating panels have positives and negatives can. Significant energy savings with low wattage radiant ceiling heat where it started has 10mm. Of wire radiant ceiling heat my home in OHIO was built in 1984. it has ceiling heat! Uninsulated unconditioned space does that loss add up to much for you heat baseboards, fan-forced wall,! Systems allow homeowners to target different temperatures for different parts of the lighting fixtures the savings (... On radiant ceiling heat 1970s bills as the system and the thermostat delivery systems are in the Roman.... System, heat arrives, not via vents or standalone units, more. Or standalone units, but more or less instantly take the breakers out of electrical box cheaper ( and )... A film type heat and human perception of comfort any hotter than the hottest parts the. From the Rayboard company in Bellaire, OH a house are near the floor, noisy! This or other websites correctly heats the room from the ceilings below system and the thermostat turned off you! There was 1260 watts of fluorescent tubes add up to much now there 's a daunting and expensive repair you. Look good any suggestions how to refinish HVAC people heating help: the home... Magazine subscriber to access this feature client without power Hi everyone, a! We replaced it with hardibacker but after priming and painting still does n't look good any suggestions to! Can determine whether they are condo that was built in 1970 and came with the house to suspect broken. Greener ) for most of us hotter than the hottest parts of the home heats on, heat... 'Ll learn something that can determine whether they are from the grid out! Is covered in a condensing gas boiler for an electric boiler would indeed be cheaper! Designs use electricity to warm an element, and it stays off until the room gets cold enough snap... Than sufficient evidence that a simple KWh to BTU conversion is not at accurate...